Free the YoutH
Episode 1
Episode 1: Home features a look at Child Protective Services (called the Department of Children and Families, or DCFS, in Illinois) and how their interventions often tear apart homes rather than providing support that would address the root causes of the family coming in contact with DCFS. We talk with individuals who have been impacted by DCFS family separation as children and as parents, as well as with young people who have been incarcerated in youth prisons to draw parallels between youth incarceration and family separation.
credits
Co-Hosts: Sherrif Da Greatest and AnnMarie Brown
Special Guests: Tony Lawlor (www.lawlorconsultinggroup.com), Winther Polk, Maddie Angell, Peter
Production Team: AnnMarie Brown, Malika Anthony, Marlee Rich, Nicole Negrete, Shayne.Khaalvin, Sherrif Da Greatest
Invocation: How Are The Children? Originally by Rev. Dr. Patrick T. O’Neill, adapted by Pat Hoertoerfer, and read by Alicia Brown
Original Music: Shayne.Khaalvin; IG: @shayne.khaalvinmusic
Other Music: Kaba Studios and Aced Spade
Producer: Hannah Rehak
Consultation and Guidance: Damon Williams and Daniel Kisslinger of AirGo Radio, Isa Vazquez
Podcast Art: Brian Herrera; IG: @brianherrera.art
Special thanks to Circles & Ciphers and the Children & Family Justice Center at the Northwestern Bluhm Legal Clinic
transcript
Alicia: Among the most accomplished and fabled tribes of Africa, no tribe is considered to have warriors more fearsome or more intelligent than the mighty Masai. It is perhaps surprising, then, to learn the traditional greeting that passes between Masai warriors. "Kasserian Ingera," one always says to another. It means, "How are the children?"
This traditional greeting among the Masai acknowledges the high value that the Masai always place on their children's well-being. Even warriors with no children of their own always give the traditional answer: "All the children are well," meaning, of course, that peace and safety prevail, that the priorities of protecting the young, the powerless, are in place, that Masai society has not forgotten its reason for being, its proper functions and responsibilities. "All the children are well" means that life is good. It means that the daily-struggles of existence do not preclude proper caring for the young.
I wonder how it might affect our consciousness of our own children's welfare if. in our culture, we took to greeting each other with this daily question: "And how are the children?" I wonder if we heard that question and passed it along to each other a dozen times a day, would it begin to make a difference in the reality of how children are thought of and cared for in our own country?
I wonder, if every adult among us. parent and non-parent alike, felt an equal weight for the daily care and protection of all the children in our community, in our town, in our state, in our country, could we truly say without any hesitation, "The children are well; yes, all the children are well."
What would it be like if religious leaders began every worship service by answering the question, "And how are the children?" If teachers began every class by answering the question, "And how are the children?" If every town leader had to answer the same question at the beginning of every meeting: "And how are the children?" If every business leader and corporate executive had to answer the same question at the beginning of every work day: "And how are the children? Are they well?" wouldn't it be interesting to hear their answers? What would it be like? I wonder... I wonder...
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Sherrif: what's up everybody welcome to Free The Youth podcast My name is Sheriff Da Greatest now with T-H-E but with D-A and we is the Final Five Campaign who is trying to close the five remaining youth prisons
AnnMarie: Thanks to you, appreciate you for opening us up. My name is AnnMarie I am the current guests host for the Free The Youth podcast. And today we are going to kick it off with a check-in. And so the check-in we have per usual is just a rose and thorn. So, Riff you can go first if you would like but just a rose and thorn rose something good. That's going on Something's positive something that is left uplifting your spirits, thorn something that's not so hot something your struggling with our school et cetera but I pass it to you Riff and you can start with your rose and thorn
Sherrif: Yeah appreciate that, so my rose and my thorn, I’ma kick it off with a thorn. A thorn is, I mean, im in this crib and you know it feels hot It's going to get hot today, You know what I'm saying 80 degrees so I'm unable to give out that's my thorn rose part side to that is definitely, shout out to the support and a lot of people that advocated for me trying to get me off the band So that's my thorn, being off his band
AnnMarie: Thank you, I appreciate you. It is a beautiful day out today. It's probably the only days we've had 80 degree weather as of now. So that's beautiful my rose my rose it's a new day. It's a new day. Last week was pretty cool just being around a lot of communities and so that was cool. I think attached to that I had a lot going on but I still was able to, you know, accomplish some of the stuff that I wanted to get done. I'm so very proud of myself for that. A thorn I think one of the hardest things for me is when I see people that I love just going through stuff that is really tough And yeah I would say that's probably my thorn you know it was just covering that and being present and trying to figure out how to support without Being able to actually change or some circumstance but just being progressive for somebody So I think that's my thorn but in any case I'm doing well, Im doing well, I'm glad to be be on here with you Riff So with that being said I will pass it to you To introduce us to the episode we gathered for folks today
Sherrif: So today's episode saying we'll be talking about home and within that within home we talking about child protective services known as DCFS or the department of children and family services in Illinois and how it intersects with the carceral system
Now when you think of home you know what I'm saying ? You think about all the the lovely things that comes with a home or the things that you need in home, which is a family, where the family is all together. The household is not broken. And when you take someone that you value out of that home it takes a tremendous effect amongst the children, amongst the partner, and amongst the person the individual that's being taken away as well. And can you imagine What can be taken away ? Imagine having something either as a TV or it's a loved loved one like a father, mother that's not in a household And once you take, once you take away something that kids value when it comes to like parenting it takes a tremendous effect upon the children and the partner because one its teaching them to be independent And two its going back to the independence, a lot of the the part the partner and the children's has to do a lot of things on their own regarding when the other parent is not involved in their life, And for me personally while I was going through that situation when I was taken away from my kids You know what I'm saying for about a year, 13 months actually And when I when I felt the separation amongst my children of seeing them through a glass you know what I'm saying. I feel, I felt separated I felt disconnected. You know what I'm saying ? I couldn't talk to my kids I wanted to talk to and give them the fact that, I was on a timeline to talk to them I don't know It just it just brought me all types of thoughts, You know what I'm saying amongst the system And given that given that given what was given it was it was okay but still overall is is nothing better than being what your kids physical And and going back to emotionally you know what I'm saying That was those feeling you bring back towards your deck or your tear or where you at And my kids wasn't able to experience the feeling that's actually needed with the parent, well with the father. and I'll pass it to you AnnMarie What's your thoughts?
AnnMarie: and I'll put a thank you Great This is beautiful It's real you know it was really real And I remember you know on not first started kind of working in this work of kind of arch and restorative justice I was Working closely with a lot of young people that were you know going through that DCFS system And it's like now I look at some of those young people some of them are currently incarcerated. Some of them are still struggling you know we're just trying to find their way some have done well but just through my work I've seen the direct connection between young people coming from that space in incarceration and I think one of the biggest things I learned from it It's like it's more than just giving someone the space you know to to to be as a kid that doesn't even necessarily have a connection to their family centers. It's like it takes more than that You know what I mean to really have any young person still feel loved and supported and as if they can grow And a lot of the young people that I work with Missing a lot of that community you know and that need and you know a type of family type of a type of love and it was fostered a lot in the space that was working And that just taught me that you know that you know putting a child and in a system such as DVS is tough you know because it's uprooting them from You know at the end day from their family which I understand is needed you know at times for some folks but at the end of the day it still does not replace the need for family and community So I think as we're listening to the interviews, we will see You know levels of that levels of that people just talking about it things that they missing like even though they're in the space um they still want it to be around family you know and people that they loved and people that they can you know resonate with and kind of figure out life So again, I think it will be dope for folks to kind of hear the experiences and overall I hope that people just have a different lens while listening to this you know just the DCFS and the current institution we have for young people who don't necessarily have space to be in their original homes, So with that being said, I'll send it back to you Riff And you can let the folks know what guests we have coming on today
Sherrif: Respect respect, yeah definitely with appreciation we do have some level of one of our lovely guests that's for to be talking uh his name is Tony Lawlor T O N Y is Tony and Lawlor L a w L O R And he is the founder of Lawlorr Consulting group And we also talking to a few other young people about their experiences with the CPS and one of the youth presidents. We're trying to create And now here here's Tony telling a bit about his experience with the CPS in his work
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Tony: My name is Tony Lawlor.
I grew up in a community called Inglewood in Chicago and, and while growing up in Inglewood, and then also when I got towards high school, I grew up in an area called Auburn Gresham. And these are one of the two, well, they would say as high as crime, violent areas on the south. and so I grew up in those areas and unfortunately, uh, it was plagued with gangs and violence and stuff.
My mom, ended up, getting introduced to drugs and, and so she, she, she ended up being on drugs. I'm the oldest of five boys. So it was kind of like a struggle. So, so from that lifestyle, like seeing how drugs and, and how,, crime and all that stuff affected like the community and. What I did was, I just, I kind of was different
I didn't want to be like involved in that. And so I worked, delivering newspapers in the morning. I went to school. Then when I got out of school, I played football. And then when I got out of football, I worked at the corner store and I did that,all through seventh to eighth grade, then I went on to high school.
And that's when I went into foster care, my mom sold drugs to an undercover cop and she got arrested and, and then we got split up into foster care. So I'm a first generation college student, nobody in my family went to college. So I got a DCFS scholarship to go to University of Illinois in Champagne.
And while I was there, that kind of helped me like to get away from the street, so to speak so I can kind of get my mind right. And know what I really wanted to do. So once I graduated. I wanted to give back, right? Like I wanted to find a way, like I made it, I didn't really, I didn't think I was going to make it.
I didn't know. You know what I mean? That I would even survive. All my brothers have been shot. I've been shot at, but I never got hit, but all my brothers have been shot. One of them was killed when he was 21 back in 2003. So it was kinda like this notion of like, I didn't want to be like my parents, my father was never in my life.
So my mom was a single parent. So I just like that thing that fueled my fire was I didn't want to be like my parents. Right. I didn't want to be like the environment that I was in. No, no, you know, no shame to that. Right. But that's, that's the way it was. I wanted to be different. And so I just worked hard. It was that resilience, but I didn't do it alone.
There were positive people that were like, Hey, there's something different about you, Ton. It's all, you know, I, you know what I mean? And they poured into me because I wanted help. So people poured into me and then, and then that's where it, where it came is I wanted to give back. I wanted to say, Hey, if there's a shorty in the community that, you know, wanna make it right, that don't want to live that life that don't want to sell.
They don't want to gang bang. I can be like, Hey, I did it. Let me show you how to do it. Not that I'm, you know, know everything, but I, I, I did it. Let me show you how to do it. And that's what I've been doing, ever since man, I, I just, I gravitate to people who want to be. And then I just kinda mentor them and showed them.
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Tony: Around 2013, my own child had a, an accident while, while we will, me and my family was away, getting ready for a party.
My daughter, at the time was six months and she had an accident, where she fell and hit her head. But she hit her head hard enough that she went into a seizure having a seizure. And so I had to give her CPR because she actually passed out. And so then she had to be rushed to the hospital and have emergency surgery.
And so they had to, perform emergency surgery on her brain right away at six months. So the next day there, the doctors were saying, you know, we don't think that she's gonna live. She suffered this, this really bad brain injury. They had to put her in a coma just to stabilize her. So DCFS was called by the nurse at the hospital.
And they said, Well, the parents must have abused this kid. There was no way the kid could have just had this incident from a fall. So what ended up happening is me. After all these years, I gave my entire life to working for DCFS. This is what I did, right. And so I got arrested, I went to jail.
I was accused of abusing, like actually shaking and abusing my kid, me and her mom. And so we, we, we had to actually. We went to jail. DCFS didn't believe us at all. I said, listen, I'm an upstanding person, I work with foster youth. I would never harm my own kid. You know what I mean? It's my first child and everything.
So, so when that happened, nobody listened to me. Like all the DCFS people, my friends, my coworkers, everybody. They shut me down. They stopped talking to me because DCFS said he's guilty and everybody believed it. And I had to battle in court for three and a half years just to get my child, but my child went into foster care.
I didn't want my kid to go in foster care. I was in foster care. I did nothing. I saved her life. I, I shared exactly where I was exactly what happened when the incident happened. And yet they still said you abused her, you and you neglected her.
And so I became homeless. I lost my job. I lost, you know what I mean? I was out there at couch surfing. So the same stuff that I was teaching my young people, I ended up, Like in the same situation. And I had lost everything y'all I lost everything.
It's like, so they even went in my record and looked back when I was 14. And they said, well, you were angry at 14. Well, yeah, I was being abused and stuff. I was angry at 14, but that'll mean that I'm guilty at 35, they were saying, well, we went back in your record. We seen in your files that in 14, you was angry.
You damn right. I was angry, right? Like I was 14 man I'm in foster care. My mom in jail, my dad ain't around my brothers. You know what I mean? I'm like, what do you mean? So it was crazy, man. It was crazy.
So we had to pay thousands of dollars over $50,000 to have attorneys to fight DCFS for me to win and get my child back.
And I did. I got my child back. She is eight years old. She is doing wonderful, great, you know, everything like that. And it was so crazy is that no one listened to me during the whole time. And I had to pay to actually. Like, like top doctors and medical people to show that this kid was never, ever shaken was never abused.
It was an accident.
So I'm free and clear. And do you know that after all of that? It didn't, it took me a year to get my record expunged because even if you're innocent and you get arrested, you gotta pay to get your own record expunged. I couldn't work if I couldn't work with you, I couldn't do any of that.
So I started my own company. Because I could not work for anybody. No one would hire me because I was accused of abusing my own child. So I started my agency and then exactly five years later, DCFS called me to be the keynote speaker at the DCFS youth summit in DeKalb. And I told my story in front of all of these, these FSBOs talked about how they accuse me.
I talked to all of that, not negatively, right. But just show how. Whatever, whatever your purpose in life, whatever you you are called to do in this world, that no matter what, nothing can stop you.
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I, actually have my own consulting company Is, is, is, my namesake. So it's like Lawlor Consulting group. and so what I do is I help people who help people, the way that I do that is I help folks start nonprofits that serve youth, especially in communities like Chicago, lower economic situations or high crime areas. So I helped thim start it and then I helped thim keep it up and running. So I provide services like grant writing, fundraising, program development, assessment, all of these things.
That we can keep, minority owned non-profits up and running so that they can sustain themselves so they can, you know, help people in the communities that really need it, that usually are, are, are not getting those type of resources. and that's a way that we can keep, some of our young people who have nothing to do, you know, or, or, or just kind of, just trying to find a way in life.
So we want these organizations to be around because they're the ones that really connect with the youth in the community and keep them busy and occupied with things, and training and resources. So they can, positive influence in their community as opposed to being seen as, as negative. So that's my primary business.
Tony: So my passion was because I came from the hood and I made it through that. I wanted to go back and help other people, like one by one, right?
Now I'm just like, I got to help. I got to help our people. Like this is happening every day. Y'all just happened to every day to somebody's innocent families every day, getting their kids taken and they're going into foster care.
Then that's pushing them into the prison system and they make money. The system is making money off of us.
Sheriff: Yes, sir. I appreciate that so much. And it seems like the CPS system was trying to dictate your future, but, from how I'm looking at it, as you're speaking, your past was also like your guidance to kind of move forward and push against the system. I really appreciate. but within that, for the next question that I have for you was what are your frustrations with the system and systems like, DCFS and, incarcerate system.
Tony: In foster care. For example, any systems there's this pipe. Of, uh, kids in foster care that, that, that goes on to prison system.
I call it, you know, from foster care to prison, right? Like there's this pipeline. And so what happens is, um, in, in the last four or five years, there, there may be like cases about 85,000. The number may be about an 85,000, calls to DCFS, right. And of those 85,000, only 25%. are indicated, meaning that they found some guilt and then a 75% of the calls.
They're unfounded, meaning that they didn't have any evidence of, of guilt or anything. And so some of the guilt is like abuse, it's neglect, it's, you know, whatever things that happened. And, and while that number is still not good, but 75% of people who get a call, those families get, get them kids ripped out as there's a trauma.
Right. But whatever happens is when kids go into foster care, the way that the system is set up, although it says it's designed to help. But it really perpetuates the trauma in the violent and you know what I mean? The trauma that kids have. So what ends up happening is statistics show that majority of the kids that's in foster care, when, you know, you, you bouncing back from different schools, different housing and all of that stuff, you know, depending on if you're in foster care or not group homes and so forth, but what happens is statistics show that.
Like 2.5% go on to college and only 1.4% even graduate from college. Right. And so that's just college. That's not graduate school or PhD or none of that. So the way that the system is set up is kind of like designed that when you are in foster care, if you in Chicago, you emancipated at 20.
But it's 18 everywhere else, like Springfield, all these other places. And, and you're not able to really be an adult. Like there's people that's 25 and 30 years old. That's another cultures that still go home to mom and they family support. But at 18 and 21, they're saying you're done medical card, cut off everything cut off.
Right. And because I mentor people, I know this for a fact, is that folks still struggle. You might end up getting an apartment, but you might lose your job. So where are you going to go? You don't have anywhere to go. So a lot of times folks got to go sleep on a train. They got a balance where we call couch surfing to, you know, stay with somebody here, get a girlfriend so they could live off the girlfriend, whatever like that.
But you do end up having your back against the wall to where you like, man, I'm hungry. I gotta eat. I gotta whatever. And the system is stacked up against you. Like you do one wrong thing and you need in your, your like labeled for life. They don't give you another chance. So now you got a little petty record cause you stole some bread or some lunch meat from a grocery store, but now you can't get a job.
Or even if you get a job because you have a GED or something, they're going to pay you the lowest wage. And no matter what you make, you're not going to make enough to afford a studio apartment. So the system is set up to say, we're going to help. To emancipate. But when you follow each person that goes from transitional living to ILOS, all of these places, it's not set up, they don't teach you how to, how to manage the money.
They manage it for you. They take the money and they pay the bills and they do all of this. But as soon as you emancipate then, Boom, you cut off you, you, you gone right into the deep into the waters. And so to me, I see this pipeline has set you up for prison. That's why majority of the people in prison are black.
That's why majority of the kids, you know, families, you know, there's there, there in the folks who have foster care, majority of them is black. It's four times the number of black kids in foster care than any other race. And it's 62% of a white population, but it's four times that amount of black kids in foster care and the same in prison.
So when you look at the systems, the systems are saying, they take kids. Well, we're taking them because the parent is neglecting. The parent doesn't have enough money to feed them and clothed them. But the single mom, like my mom with five kids and the man left. She don't have enough money to pay the rent and the bills and all of this stuff.
That's not neglect. That's a poverty issue, but the system will take them and say, well, she can't take care of kids. And the tax dollars that's spent on that should be why not give that parent a voucher? Why not give that parents a voucher to get a bed and some clothes and stuff.
Sherrif: Yeah, I really feel that voucher for the parents. You know what I'm saying? And dealing with the poverty issue that's in the community, it's spoken within the actions of mothers and fathers. That's either in a kid's life or, that's not a part of the kid's life because of this system that's in placement.
yeah, I really appreciate that. I definitely agree with you. On thst you know what I'm saying? Like if there is an issue with a family, and that's like far as coming up with a bid or housing, you know what I'm saying? Those links need to be given to the family. So that way they keep the families together. was there ever a time where you felt like your voice was actually listened to by DCFS?
Tony: I was split up between my brothers, right? So what will happen is some siblings will get split. Some might be in this family over here in this family over here or in different parts of the state. The issue was that a sibling may want to see his or her brother's sister.
And if that family meant, if that, if that parent didn't want them to say like, nah, such as such as bad, I don't want you to see them. And so, they will have that. They could do that. And so together, , one of our initiative, there were many of them, but one of our initiatives was to come up if what we called the Siblings Rights Act.
And so we did that. We, we, we, we, uh, we came together and we, came up with, a bill, a house bill that we could, , families who wanted to see their siblings to have that, right? Like you have the right to see your brother and sister, so they have to make a good forth effort in that. And so we did come up with that, the Siblings Right.Act.
And so it was through this. Working with the youth throughout the system and being able to like share what their issues and concerns was and taking that and getting that passed into law. And so that was probably back in 2012 or so 2013, somewhere in that, in that time that we did. Uh, under governor Quinn, we got that sign and we got that, that, that law passed among other things that we did.
Sherrif: Now that right there.Tony, that was fire. feel me. Dealing with the fact that, uh, you use your powers and for the voice of the youth, dealing with your power, able to speak to these people to get that for the youth. , that really speaks highly of you as a parent and as an advocacy as well. You know what I'm saying? And I was hearing you talk and can you say a little bit more about that leakage in between the children's born through the foster care system with the DCFS in prisons?
Could you highlight, briefly for me a few more linkages. We have young people who are going into these foster care system, the DCFS systems.
Tony: So you can have a young person that for whatever reason dropped out of high school, right. It was just too hard or because they move from home to home and, and, and so, you know how it works.
Sometimes you got to go into a school, the school that's in that neighborhood. And so depending on if you knew, depending on the community, you like, I can't go to that school, I'm going to get jumped or you know, how it is now with the different sets. My brothers dropped out of school.
One of my brothers dropped out at sixth grade, seventh grade, the other two never made it out of high school. So the situation is now, now you put yourself, you put yourself in that situation where. Okay, you got, you gotta go back and get your GED or you don't have your high school diploma.
Right. But now you're like, okay, I'm ready to work. I want to do something. I want to work. Okay. I don't school ain't for me. So I want to work. But then when you get these jobs, if you get the job, they're going to pay you the lowest wage. But then on the job who who's really giving you on a job training, you might not know what you don't know, you mess up one time or you late one time, they fire you, right.
Or you have an issue where housing, like you have to have a place to live in order to get a job, but it wouldn't, you know, but if you drop out or emancipate and you don't have a place to go. Or you commuted from the north side, all the way to the south side, to your job, or you get a warehouse job at a ups facility, which there's no bus routes.
You, you, you could get to the bus, but then you gotta walk two miles to get to that place. So if you late, they're going to fire you. Right? And so now you don't have a job, you really don't have a place to go. And so what I'm saying is sometimes you could be homeless and riding the trains, right? And because you ride in the trains to sleep day might arrest you.
Cause you ain't got to play. You know, or you hungry and some people might steal or whatever. I don't know.i know Somebody that stole a loaf of bread. And they got prosecuted on it. It was like, why are you still in bread? Well, I ain't got no food. Right. I'm not saying it's right. But they got prosecuted to that and get, and get locked up.
So what I'm saying is that it's these constant things where you don't have place to stay and then, and then you don't really have anything to eat. You don't really have anything like, you're just, you're trying, but there's no way, like your back is against the wall here. Your back is against the wall there. So, I'm not saying that sometimes you don't do petty crimes, but they prosecute people to the fullest.
They don't let them out and say, well, let's put you over here in this org, in this program so that we can help you get on your feet. It's just like we prosecute you, you in jail now, you don't, you don't have the money for. Right. So you wouldn't there because you, ain't got 500 out of the bond out.
So you in jail and then why you in jail, you done messed up, right? Like you lost your place or you lost your job because of something like that. So what I'm trying to show you is how these systems like kind of combined to just continue to be negative. And so once you Are in jail. And then you kinda get used to that and you get out and you say, well, I want a job.
Uh, nobody want to hire you. You got a record. So what am I supposed to do, Ton? Well, let's try to get you in this program. Right? You get into this program, something happened, they kick you out. You, you know, Hey, let me see if I can get this lady to let you stay with them. You stay over there, you get a little attitude.
They want to kick you out. Right? You don't, you can't get a job. They're like, you can't stay here. You ain't bringing no money in you expensive. They kick you out. So, what I'm saying is like the system is set up to where you really got to go to you, go to prison and that's sometimes the place where you to get food.
That's some kinds of where you're going to get some type of service, you know, unfortunately, but it's perpetual like once you got it, you really, you really stuck, man, unless you want to start a business. And that's what I been trying to teach people, like, maybe just start a business. So that way you could get back on your feet.
Cause the society sometimes don't let people, they don't. They don't forgive you.
Sherrif: Yeah, I really appreciate that. , what'd you say was definitely fire. Just hearing your voice, it speaks, power into like, pushing on peoples that has background. To, be who they want to be and continue to be who they want to be.
Really appreciate that, of trying to push our people to be entrepreneurs.
When I went into foster care, it was, I believe I had just turned 13, so I, I had. It was the summer. I graduated from eighth grade and it was that summer that my mom got arrested for selling, to an undercover cop. And, and then when we went to foster care.
So I, so my, so starting high school starting my high school, I was in foster care and in four years, in four years, Moved probably to about six different households. And so I, I bounced around a lot, but I still went to the same high school. Not a lot of kids, not a lot of people get to do that, but I still travel just wherever I live throughout the city.
I traveled. So, so for me, I actually, I know its weird cause it kind of like on record, but I, I just, I use the system, so I used it to my advantage. So I, somehow I figured out like, Like how to use it to my advantage, because they will offering things like medical cards and this, that, and other. So I actually use that.
Do you think, that, dealing with the DCF system, do you think that it can be transformed? Or do you feel like it need to be abolished and the kids needs to be given back to their families.
Tony: For somebody that they might've went in the system because of abuse and neglect, but what the system didn't realize is no matter what your mom did or didn't do, or didn't take care of you at the end of the day, when these kids was taken and put in a foster home or group homes, they still wanted to go and see their mom and their mom.
And are siblings and stuff. The system would be like, you can't, they're the ones that, they're the reason why you went and kids are like, that's still my mom. Like I still love her. Yeah. I, you know, yeah. This happened to me. or Yeah, that happened. They don't realize. That person still want to be, you know what I mean?
Like people make mistakes. Yeah. Yeah. My mom did. Couldn't afford this stuff. I got a, I got a good life and I'm in a good school over here, but I still want to see my family right on holidays. And a lot of times the system doesn't do that. And that's when people don't want to be in the system. It's when they turn them against their own family members.
Abuse happens. Yes. Neglect happened. Right. But some kids, some people will say, I forgive let's move on. The system is like, no, you can't. We got to remember this forever. So it's not a route really rehabilitation and reunification. It's more like let's separate. And then boom, that's it. We terminate rights.
So they're quick to do that. They're quick to terminate rights as opposed to rehabbing. Yeah. Maybe mom is on drugs. Right. But instead of helping to rehab mom. They're like, Nope. Mom is on drugs. Let's terminate rights. Let's send you over here to such and such
this statistics of the people that are indicated versus not it's 75% to twenty-five percent. Y'all 75% of the people that's been their life has been interrupted and they have a record are innocent. But yet they still go through that. That's in it. 75%. That's huge. Look at it. 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019 go online.
It's actually there, you can see it is 75% and that's so that's wrong. Y'all come on the, the, the error, you know what I mean? It could be a few hundred or something like, but you're talking thousands. You're talking out of 75 to a hundred thousand people that 75,000 people are innocent and DCFS was called and they went and took the kids come on.
These folks don't care about the kids, man. You gotta get somebody that care about the kids. The people that's been through it. You know, that, that knows what it's like.
Sherrif: That's real Tony. That's so real was really shocking to me is that 75%, You know what im saying? of, the kids that's being taken away. You know what I'm saying? You saying 75,000, like that is a huge number. You know what I'm saying? And especially to support. I'm just call it an industry, you know, I'm gonna call it an industry.
You know what I mean? Their profit enough of that, I definitely feel, I can see the innocence of like, youth just randomly just getting taken away just because of a little minor thing, being lack of, you know what I'm saying? So, yeah, I really appreciate that. I think you might've touched on it a little bit.
What are some positive support, that you would give towards the kids leaving DCFS?
Tony: Let's say, for example, me and you get hired today at a corporation ABC. Right now we might have a skill, right? Like we have a skill. And, and so what happens is they're going to say, thank you for that skill, but this is how we do it here.
So they put you through a training process during that 90 day probation training process, they're teaching you. Right. And then they're going to see if you're able to implement your skill plus their training and to help their company to grow. But what we don't do in life and in these systems and stuff like that.
And we'll be talking about with foster care and stuff, where they miss it is they tell you what to do, but we lack people showing you what to do and guiding you through the system so that when you slip up, they dust you off and say, get back. Do it like this, but, but we tell people what adults tell people with it.
That's called adultism. We tell you when to go to bed, we tell you what to do. And we say that we'll start a youth organization, but the adults make all the decisions where, where, what I, what I taught going through youth development. I learned that if you going to have a youth led group, then the youth, you have to empower them.
To make the decisions to make the choices and then allow them to test it out, to see if the plane will fly, to see if their ideas is going to come to fruition. And if they don't, then you still, then you say, okay, let's go back and think about the steps. Let's see what happened, what went wrong, allow you to see that for your own self, instead of us telling you what didn't work.
Right? So this right, right here is allows you to empower yourself and to grow and develop young people are smart. We just don't give them enough credit to actually show that. I say support a young person's passion. So what we did in our program, we asked them, what do you want to be? What do you want to be when you grow up?
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AnnMarie: Wow. That's amazing. Thank you so much, Tony. Please give a huge shout out to Tony. The amazing wisdom that he just gave us. And, man, he ended off the right way. Really reflecting kind of what we are trying to do by just having the young people lead.
Because they are the ones who will affect change in the future and they deserve to be heard. I have that power. So again, big shout out to Tony. You are, we'll hear more from youth during the interview and ill pass it off to you Riff to kind of bring us into the next part.
Sherrif: so now for our next loving guests, we have. Winter Maddie and Peter, and they will be pretty much speaking upon their experiences with the foster care, and one with the incarceral system.
AnnMarie: So as we go into this next part, just want to be very transparent, very honest. The audio is not the best, but I think what matters and what's most important is the content so as y'all are listening, please, bear with us, as it gets better, but please, also just listen to the voices and their stories
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Sherrif: welcome everybody. Can you please you say your name and what you're do.
Winther: Im Winter Polk. I worked for the Chicago public library. I'm a library clerk
Maddie Angel: my names Maddie Angell. I'm a grad student and I'm working with Illinois Times right now.
Peter: My name is Peter,im landscaping right now.
Denzel: The first question I have for us today is, given your situation - What was it like being in either the foster care system or incarcerated and, or both?
Winther: It was something that I was raised in. So from a little girl up to being emancipated at 21 and then completing the youth and college program. It actually was like my support system outside of not having a family and being like born until the circumstances beyond my control.
for me, I don't deem, I know, like I came in and I, I wanted to change the narrative and I didn't want to be another statistic. So I was aware of conscious of that from an early age when I came in. well I transitioned at 17 and to a TLP. TLP it's a transitional living program.
So basically you're eligible at the age of 17 and a half to go into. Go to an agency outside of foster care, who basically advocates for youth to have housing and post-secondary education resources and different incentives and, um, allowances that help you prepare as a young adult. That kind of gave me the life skills and the resources and the mentors that I needed to be fully supported outside of not having like, you know, the advantage of coming from a family or anyone, outside of like being placed in different foster homes, placing a claim over me as far as wanting to be a part of like their family and so forth. So, mechanic gave me, a new. a new faith as far as like not being ruled out completely, you know, because mind you, if we didn't have these systems in place, then unfortunately I would think the homeless rate would be even more at a higher, all time high.
So for me, I really took advantage of the resources and the opportunities that presented themselves. And I made it my own. I changed the narrative. I'm still doing that. I'm a big advocate as well. I'm now 24. I completed the program, but even learning about new resources is other programs that support aged out youth up until the age of like 30 now.
So I'm one of those that really do my due diligence as far as seeking out that information. And then also having those resources, accessibly available to share with other people, cause yeah, it goes back to like the training of the caseworkers or if, even if they're passionate or not, you know, to go about doing their work and really, , helping each youth, according to their individual needs and not as just a whole putting them all into one category, but yeah, really for me.
I always say my, I didn't have a family, but foster care DCFS was like my family and it wasn't something I was trying to personally get away from because when I was more like 17, high school, a senior in high school, I was really frustrated living in the TLP. Cause it was kind of like all these people in and out of my life.
That's something, as well as attachment dealing with different, like therapists, like caseworkers, cause people come and go, right? So for me that was like a big thing I had to get accustomed to, and really like changed my way of thinking so that I was open to know that these people are set up here to support me, to help me, like they work for you for the cause of your wellbeing.
So yeah, I really just took advantage of that.
So like I went in at 17 and a half to this TLP and basically I had my own apartment fully furnished. And I pretty much governed myself as far as going to school. Of course you have like different advocates there, your, your person you'll go to staff person in the building is staff monitoring the building the entire time, as well.
As far as my office being 24 hour assessable with staff and they rotate and they do their rounds, they do make sure that you're meeting your requirements on your, and as far as getting, going through school and Having a job and savings and being accountable for your expenses and things of that nature.
So. Yeah, that was something I experienced going into my senior year of high school. So everyone thought it was cool. Like, oh, she got her own apartment. She living on her own she's living by herself. But for me it was just like, yo, I was kind of forced to grow up early and be more mature at a younger age.
And I've been, I've been in training ever since, since 17, up until 24 now. So it was just like with that, after a TLP, you want to get out the TLP by 19 and a half and go into an ILO, which is an independent living. That helps you now they pay your rent up until the age of 21.
And from there you should be in school. You should be working, working towards something, as well, have a goal. Set goals and then from there all is doing these programs are prepping you for independence. So when I'm emancipated at 21, I went into another program with, which is a youth in college and I got the ETV scholarship.
And then I went to Columbia. Got my bachelor's. But yeah, it really just using the stepping stones that's put in place because they literally support you.
Denzel: Thank you for, uh, thank you for sharing.
Maddie Angel: And I can also piggyback off of what she said because I've had, you know, a little bit different experience.
Yeah. So, I came into care whenever I was 14. So I'm about, I'm turning 24 this year.
It's been about 10 years. I've been doing with DCFS and well, you know, working with them, however you'd like to see it. And I just, whenever we first came into care, it was a very like isolated period because you get moved into these areas where it's kind of like a culture shock. Like, it doesn't really matter what background you're from.
You're always going to get put in like maybe an area that, or with a family that isnt going to match up to what you know. So in my. that it might be good, but then you also find like for me, I fell at a time like individual homes. So like with placement families and, like I found often
I find it interesting that way. I don't know, who's making the decision to say whose problems are worse or better. And you know, what they're caused from? Because like my family, I came from a family and background where like, we just needed housing. My dad and my mom would fight along and there as long as like domestic violence and we really just needed like the basics, like shelter and, you know, transportation to doctor's appointments and that kind of thing.
But I really snowballed into this. Gigantic long journey, you know, through the system. So it's taken a long time and I've, I've tried to advocate for myself and for, you know, my brothers and sisters, I have four or five, six brothers and sisters. And yeah, I think that it can be very isolating.
I was very depressed whenever I was little, I struggled with mental health and I think that the best thing that happened to me as well, like kind of going off of what winter said was Getting my own space, letting you know, the agencies, like letting me start to do my own things, helping me like find a job and like those kinds of things.
Because once you get that agency, it's, it becomes a lot easier to like, make the best decisions for you and kind of like go on your own path without people trying to control you, surveil you or guide you in any which direction that eat that might not be best for you. So that's, that's kinda just my initial, you know, introduction and recap of my experience in time.
Denzel: Thank you, you know, going a little bit of a different direction and like, as I'm even hearing, like some of the resources and different things, like, you know, maybe, was there, or maybe not present in a bit in a different, like emotional issues, they like may come from like growing up in those different things.
I feel like I can kind of relate too. Just, it may not be the same as like we age growing up that we all kind of came up in the system with learning in the system that I was in like incarcerated. I was in there when I like just turned 15 to like 20. So like all those years, my, you know, birthdays and holidays and stuff I was spent like behind bars and everything.
So, I definitely like. Have, you know, put myself in the right direction, like in life-wise because of different resources that were provided within this facility, like going to high school, like I used to go to high school before I got locked up and I ended up getting my high school diploma and take college courses and different things like that.
But it is like a give and take, you know what I'm saying? Just like, it was good things that was provided. I feel like, you know, there was a lot of things lacking and missing as well. But, you know, you know, help. Peter join in on a conversation as well. Maybe you could kind of speak on like the different feelings you had while, you know, being in a carceral system and,you know, doing time like,
Peter: So for me I realized, like at the very beginning it was kind of depressing because the mother of my child was six months pregnant and I was supposed to be there for when my son was supposed to be born. Right. And I actually wasn't. So they actually put, I had a lot of things on my mind and they gave me like a lot of stress.
So that was just the beginning of it. Like while I was in JJC before I went to IDJJ like I wasn't as depressed anymore, because I was actually able to see my son multiple times before COVID started. And then like also like being in IDJJ, it's kind of like, i don't know when you first get there, you gotta, like, everybody's going to try to test you.
And like, they want to see by what you're about and like, see if you're gonna do whatever you're gonna do. With what they want, what they want you to do. There's a lot of peer pressure over there. Like I guess a lot of people over in St. Charles, where I was at at the very beginning, it's just like reckless over there.
And like, not a lot of staff over there are doing their job. They just like sit down and relax and just like, let people fight, let people gamble, all kinds of stuff. Like without Caring and then. Yeah. It's like with the IDJJ, in St. Charles, I feel like it's not, it's not how it's actually supposed to, like, it's not run how it's supposed to be run.
They're literally having youth run that whole facility. Like, I don't understand how that's even possible, but that's exactly what was going on over there. And. Yeah. But when I was in St. Charles, like I had, I didn't have to but I did, I got into multiple fights with people because of other people started stuff and it's not, it's not like I wanted to, but I had to cause I don't want to like get myself hurt and just like other people hurt me.
and then the facility, the last facility that I was in, in IDJJ was Warrenville and then actually a pretty good facility over there. They actually help you out. They help you out with school. I was actually able to graduate on time before I, I left from there.
They, they asked me. Also They helped me apply for this one job. And they're also helping me like, like they also helped me with, before I left, they helped me out with multiple things, like getting me situated, like.
They were asking me, do I need like a tablet, a laptop, a phone? Do I need like clothing? Do I need like any kind of hygiene shoes?
And then. That's pretty much it like in one village, just like they like to help people out. They don't want to, they like to set you up for success.
Denzel: Thank you, Peter, for, speaking of that as well. Cause you know, it's definitely like brave speaking up against those things. Cause it's like you almost kind of walking into like a war zone when you first get like locked up and you go down to some of those facilities.
Like when I was down there years ago, It's a lot different than it is now. Like the culture. It was definitely, my idea was probably worse, but, I'm a, pass it over to Shariff.
Sherrif: I appreciate that. I was just about to say, also the juvenile system. Um, I don't know. I feel, I felt like personally, it was like too much parenting going on. You know what I'm saying? It's like, they take you away from one parent and then he puts you in a strict parenting facility. And it was like, everybody's like, want to be the boss of like, say like what to do.
And he was like, it's like, how can I do what they need like, like, it was like this. It's like a mixed guidance, but it was also, it was like guidance and sort of sense of like, you need to get yourself together. Oh, just be yourself. And he was like, my, how can I be, I cannot be me without yall being on my back. You know what I'm saying? My next question is, what age did you felt you was through with foster care and what brought that to women like
Winther: For me, it was like the senior year of high school that I described earlier, as far as being in the TLP and going through those transitions of dealing with multiple people, different people like, yeah, you have your own apartment, but you still have to, you know, work with, with your team, the people that are there to support you.
But that for me did get frustrating and it was kind of like I went AWOL a lot. And the TLP, because I was like, be doing my own thing. You know, they have procedures in place, like not getting your incentives, your allowances, if you not there when they do their rounds and check the apartments.
So things like that. I was, more of a, like rebellious 17, 18 year old that wanted to, I thought I've had all the answers at that time and wanted to do it according to what I thought was best. But, , yeah. And I guess to kind of like recently I found that.
Sherrif: Quick, quick question. Can you also explain what AWOL means?
Winther: Oh yeah. So when you on the run, well, when you don't, it's either considered on the run or when you just don't return back to the facility the night you like when you're supposed to, because you're supposed to be sleeping in a facility like every night coming home and you get weekend passes that allow you to be granted privileges for.
Staying out. So I wasn't waiting on thim to give me permission. You know, I was doing what I, what I wanted to do, which was probably like at the time unruly, and I could have, you know, you know, abide it more. And that's the thing with being young. You kind of think, you know, all the answers, but you really don't.
So learning out later that, you know, I gave you more structure and discipline, just following certain things. Cause set up for your benefit. Obviously, because every time I would not be, there is a police report placed on you. Then now the police looking for you and then possibly I've had times where I could have been sent to like juvie cause constantly being on the run, like leaving,cause that's for me, I left a foster home.
They placed us with somebody literally, who was bipolar and, in some, someone's home who had a mental illness. And that kind of affected me and, you know, my sister, our placement growing up. So like I would run away all the time from there. So the point where I just decided that I would sacrifice staying in a group home, if it was going to get me my own place.
And to being fed up with like knowing, not knowing, being knowledgeable about not being knowledgeable about all the resources that are offered, I guess, a ton of resources. And sometimes if it's so much movement with caseworkers and being like new, AGALs new judges as an attorney, you are assigned to an attorney and attorney to your case as well.
It's hard to see your case as well. So with that, it's kind of like
., I see favoritism with my sister I'm out the system, right. And we have the same AGL she text to this day. She emails me all resources, job opportunities. Yet my sister, she doesn't do that too. So it's kind of like, well, we let him personal feelings and relationships.
I'll build relationships with people though. I get to know people and I establish a report that I can always go back on and connect with. So I don't believe in burning bridges and utilizing what was Granted to you, you know, due to our circumstances. So if you change your mind, you change your life. Right? So with that, it's like I kind of was fed up with, I think that should be another training and put into place for case workers for gas, for whoever advocates in , they need to be up on resources, up on programmings, up on funding being changed, you know, up on the, the things that's happening within the courts, as far as like, you know, our rights and just like, yeah, it goes back to just resources too.
Sherrif: I see Maddie that you wanted to say something. I appreciate that too.
Maddie Angel: Yeah, I think it varies from caseworker to caseworker, right? In my placement to placement because like I had some really crazy placement, same thing, mental health issues with the foster parents that wont address issues between them and their own kids, issues between us and you know, their kids.
And you know, the first relative placement that I was putting in. Experience a very similar things like that. You talking about with ID JJ, like we were fighting and they were watching, like, it was a cinema production and you know, you get these kids that come from these really like traumatic and just chaotic environments that it's normalized. But yet we're put in environments where it's pretty similar. Like the circumstances are almost the same similar, like we're still fighting. So having issues, not going to school and fighting with ourRelative placements or foster parents. And it really depends on the case worker too, because if they have 20 to 30 cases that they're trying to oversee, like they can't sit down and have a real conversation with kids or like about what they need and you know, what's going on in the house.
And then what Winter said to there, there's definitely favoritism in both systems because I did the same thing. Like I made sure that, you know, I was a little troublemaker to. Doing things, but I made sure that on paper, I never got in trouble because I was terrified, but that was going to be used against me whenever I grew up and like needed people to take me seriously and listen to me.
So in the beginning, if you're in trouble and like, if you're just having issues and you don't like somebody doesn't kind of listen to you and take the time to listen to you, then you can quickly become someone That this system does not listen to at all and does not take seriously. And then you, you know, five years, 10 years pass, and you still aren't getting the help that you need.
Your family's still not getting the help that they need. And I it's just, it's favoritism, it's overworked, you know, systems and like really it varies. It's just the services vary completely across the board.
Sherrif: I appreciate that. Can you explain, at what age did you feel like this wasn’t it for you? I got, I gotta, I gotta do something better. Okay. what age do you feel like that?
Maddie Angel: Well, like in a, in a foster place for me, it was like, as soon as I moved, I knew it was a mistake because like I went into care, telling them, you know, my mom was a single parent working. I was taking care of my brothers and sisters. Like we needed different kinds of things.
And they figured that if they just kept moving us and separate us into groups together of twos and threes, it would work. But ultimately from the time that I went into care, I was like, there's a different way to do this. Like there's a better and different way to do this. So since I've been in care, you know, I didn't even get like the independent Programs.
I had to like, even more to a degree, do all that research on my own ass. You know, people, teachers, my high schools and stuff, and like, , they would like take temporary custody of me because same thing, I was like kind of AWOL, I didn't want nobody to tell me what to do because sometimes it's really hard for the system to admit, but the kids know.
What the solutions are and they know what they need. And like, they're just a trust. Like, I think there needs to be some kind of trust because ,from the jump, I was not taken seriously, you know, I was asked why I didn't, ,come forward before, or like victim blaming and stuff like that.
And then they wonder like why people are fed up from the beginning. But that's basically that question of why didn't you say something before, why didnt you talk to Somebody's, that question just put me off completely., And since then, I've really tried to work from the inside out. And like, when does that get resources out to other youth?
And let them know, like, there's a different way to do this where you can not only change from the inside, but like affect the people around you and like help them also realize like where some of these spaces that you can grow and like work in, collaborate with people. So, yeah, first day out. The day that I moved into my relative place.
Now I was like, I'm ready to go back home or something. You know, there has to be some kind of alternative placement.
Winther: And two, I just wanted to clarify what the difference between like the correlation more so between DCFS and foster care. So foster care is more so the families, the home placements that they find for you and DCFS is the whole.
DCFS is your guardian. You're parent, but they place you in foster care for different, you know, housing or, or where there's a relative or foster parent. It just steps up and said they will accept you. So that's kind of like what the difference, DCFS is the master. And then foster care is like the support with the.
Denzel: Peter, you know, going over to like a different, you know, agency. Now we talking about, the carceral system, with you being incarcerated, I guess a good question to ask you is like, you know, What was your last experience, your first time ever, you know, being incarcerated and if it wasn't, do you feel like, you know, this is the last time and DJJ has provided you with the resources while you were in there and outside now for you to never go back I know it's still fresh for you being at home.
Do you feel like they supported you and are still supporting you?
Peter: I'm actually never going to get locked up again. I can see you guys that right now because I've been watching everything I've been doing. I'm just making sure I'm not doing nothing. You mean? Im doing everything I'm supposed to do. Like staying in contact with my parole officers staying on track.
And they're still like, like, reminded me to keep on doing positive things and to keep on pushing for my son.
Sherrif: I was just wondering if there's like, a guidance that you want to tell a future someone that's born through the same situation.
Winther: Yeah, to really take advantage of the circumstance that you in, don't look at it as a disadvantage or unfortunate, it is obviously right.
But like I say, you change your mind, you change your life.
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AnnMarie: big shout out to our podcast guests, Peter, Winter, Maddie. Theirexperiences really, really got us into, you know, our solutions because they are the ones that are at the front and they're the ones that are having the experiences. So, thank you again to them as, uh just hearing their voice. Their stories has taught us a lot about the system and the solutions that we need to create to move forward. So with that being said, I will slide it to you Riff.
Sherrif: much appreciated. Now we'll end it with a question for Tony, talking about, what would you say to a younger you that will help him? Get to the time in foster care.
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Tony: So one, I always tell people to encourage and inspire folks that's going through it is I'm always encourage them to use whatever this, like, it's like fuel for the flame.
Right? So if you like. So for me the fuel for my flame was I didn't want to be like my parents. That was my fuel. I didn't want to, I want it to be opposite of everybody in my community and stuff. And that was what focused me to overcome all the obstacles to be resilient, right? Like you could you say, say, some people are born leaders in some say you develop a leader, you might have something in you, but you need that sort of development and that support.
And so in that sense, whatever drives you, what's that self motivation for some people, it's their grandma. Some people it's their brother, some people, his mom, his dad, his whatever, but whatever that is, use that. So that you can, you know, move through. And so what happens is whether you get locked up, whether you'll kid going to foster care, whether you battle DCFS for three and a half years, but whatever your purpose is, whatever your fuel is, that's going to get you over the hump.
That's going to get you over the mouth. There's a mountain. You either going to go around it, go through it or go over it. But either way it goes, if you have purpose and passion, you're going to get through it because nothing's going to stop you from that until the day you die.
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Sherrif: Thank you again to our lovely guests. To Tony, to Winter, to Maddie, to Peter, for coming to Free The Youth podcast, we really encourage you all to check out Tony's work@lawlorconsultinggroup.com. That's Lawlor consulting group.com.
AnnMarie: And big shout out again to the young people that we saw. Thank you to everyone, for listening to their experiences, and how they've been directly impacted by DCFS in the carceral system. So with that being said, I'll open it up for our checkout. It's our checkup for today is what's something that you're taking away from this episode. So Riff I'll kick it off to you.
Sherrif: True. What I'm taking away from today's episode is, the percentage, you know what I'm saying? That percentage that, Tony gave us . And on top of that, that piece where he says as well regarding, if a family, if a family is lacking, like, uh, housing or a bit of something that doesn't mean that, you know, family should depart, you know what I'm saying?
Because that mother couldn't provide, or a father could provide it, keeping both families in the household, you know, that's what makes the. And that's what keeps a youth striving for greater self critical and, Peter, I really appreciate what Peter said. You know what I'm saying? I haven't really personally experienced Warrenville, you know what I'm saying?
He gave a very broad description of. Warrenville, isn't how they are operating. Um, but I was in St. Charles, but, yeah, just to hear that other site from one view and, Winter and Maddie.
I really appreciate you, you both for, , expressing yourself into the deepest vulnerability way, you know, of, your experiences with foster care and the DCFS system. I know I haven't personally, I was close to, to. Experienced those, but it didn't proceed in a way, just only happened with one of my family members.
so I really appreciate you, highlighting that a part of your life. Overall, um, yeah, I'm gonna just take that away from today's episode. What about you?
AnnMarie: Yeah. Thanks Riff Those are, super impactful, super, beautiful points and im taking away so much. Ibe then sees so much, from the podcasts and the, and the folks I talk to in general. But I think one thing that I heard that Tony said that kind of bled into all the interviews was that, his mother was a single mother struggling.
And instead of, the system looking at her and say, okay, this is a mother who's struggling who needs support, who needs help. Let's penalize her for their environment that she, you know, kind of was in which, creates more harm at the end of the day. You know what I mean? So I think this bleeds into even some of the experiences that, You know, Maddie, Winter and Peter are talking about yourself.
Like they had needs, you know, their family had needs and, it wasn't tended to, and they, and they weren't supportive. So this is what happened. And so it's like the system reacts after, whereas like why can't we just all react before, right. Give people What they need, the resources that they need till they're able to take care of their families.
And, you know,have solid homes. So I think overall what I got from everybody is that, You know, it's hard to tell your story. it's hard to tell your story. It's hard to relive it. It's hard to be in that space of talking about your harm or what you've been through. But at the end of the day, these people were brave enough to come, you know, come out to other experiences so that it educates the rest of us.
And they are. You know, one of many stories. So overall I appreciate everybody who took some time to be a part of the podcast today. And yeah, it's all love. It's all love. And hopefully folks are, you know, you
folks that are out there listening are taking something from it as well. But with that being said, we will wrap up. I slide it to you Riff, to wrap it up for us, give folks an idea of where they can find us, find our podcast, find more about what were doing.
Sherrif: So appreciate that. you know, please check us out on Instagram. Finale Five Instagram. It is at T H E final five. like the number 5, campaign . That's the Instagram and for our Twitter follow us at final ,the 5 number, C A M P A I G N. That's the Twitter to follow us on that as well.
We have a website. , thefinal5campaign.com. You can also donate to the campaign on our website.
Keep an eye out for the next episode. Topic is community, and I really appreciate everybody that attended to the Free The Youth podcast.
We're not stopping til they free us. We do this until they free us.